<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1518</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	12/17/99 1:04:56 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Friday, December 17 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1518<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: [OT] Politically Correct Season's Greetings<BR>
re: They're coming! (again)<BR>
Re: Silly Traveller<BR>
RE: [OT] Firearms Discussions (long)<BR>
Re: Thunder Child (was re: They're coming (again))<BR>
Re: Thunder Child (was re: They're coming (again))<BR>
Re: [BITS] Millennium Announcement<BR>
Re: Re Laws affecting Space Travel from the US [OT]<BR>
Re: They're coming! (again)<BR>
Re: [BITS] Millennium Announcement<BR>
RE: Hivers and Grandfather<BR>
Re: [OT] Firearms Discussions (long)<BR>
Re: Seven Wonders of Charted Space<BR>
Re: back on topic?  was: (Way OT and possible Flamebait)<BR>
Re: New Sayat Battery-Powered Novelty<BR>
Re: crime explained (was chicks with guns and other OT madness)<BR>
Re: [OT] Politically Correct Season's Greetings<BR>
Re: Ethnic Confusions<BR>
Re: technology advances<BR>
Re: [BITS] Millennium Announcement<BR>
Re: [OT] Politically Correct Season's Greetings<BR>
RE: chicks with guns, and 3I porno<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 18:23:45 -0000<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: [OT] Politically Correct Season's Greetings<BR>
<BR>
Jason Kemp wrote:<BR>
<snip><BR>
> Happy Holidays, (or whatever you choose to celebrate,)<BR>
<BR>
As  a  Christian  I  celebrate   the   *Christian*   holiday   of<BR>
*Christmas*, and send best wishes to all (Christian  or  not)  at<BR>
this time.  (Okay, I admit  I  tend  to  celebrate  it  with  the<BR>
standard fusion of Christian and Pagan traditions.)<BR>
<BR>
Merry *Christmas*<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
(Trivia:  I just read of a store in Tokyo trying to get into  the<BR>
spirit of Christmas but misunderstanding some  of  the  symbolism<BR>
... they proudly displayed Santa Claus nailed to a cross!)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 07:39:21 +1300<BR>
From: "finnatic @ ihug" <finnatic@ihug.co.nz><BR>
Subject: re: They're coming! (again)<BR>
<BR>
"Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I have the double-CD soundtrack to Jeff Wayne's War of the Worlds.<BR>
 ...<BR>
  I got a better recording then and a year later (1981 by now I<BR>
>think) I found the vinyl version.  We used to play it for background music<BR>
>when we played Traveller, Gamma World and Risk.  :)<BR>
<BR>
 obTrav:<BR>
<BR>
 RCS Thunderchild, page 48, Star Vikings.  And there is a Ship's patch<BR>
 on page 52.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 13:14:54 -0500<BR>
From: Rob Brady <robb@datatone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Silly Traveller<BR>
<BR>
At 05:18 PM 12/16/99 +0000, Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Anyway, to find an obligatory Traveller bit I'm sure you've all been<BR>
>thinking up ways that an odd religion might have a sacred object with just<BR>
>such characteristics even if it's not the actual Ark as has been discussed.<BR>
<BR>
Back when I did nothing but read UFO books (Chariots of the Gods?) they<BR>
discussed a number of biblical passages. I think the behavior of the ark<BR>
was blamed on radioactivity.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Tardy robber.. Order By Brat.. Tardy Bob ERR.. Retry bad Rob.. Retro by bard<BR>
Robert Brady                                        robb at datatone dot com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 18:46:34 -0000<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: [OT] Firearms Discussions (long)<BR>
<BR>
Harold D. Hale wrote:<BR>
> Harold's Thoughts On Gun Control<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
Thank you for that breath of fresh air.  A most logical, factual,<BR>
and sensible post ... I was beginning to think such qualities did<BR>
not exist on the TML.<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 08:15:50 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Thunder Child (was re: They're coming (again))<BR>
<BR>
> Frank Pitt wrote:<BR>
> >>>>>>>>>><BR>
> Personally I think that "Thunder Child" is the most stiurring song, as<BR>
well<BR>
> as having some great assonance<BR>
><BR>
> "Lashing ropes and smashing timbers<BR>
> Flashing heat-rays pierced the deck<BR>
> Dashing hopes for our deliveance<BR>
> As we watched the sinking wreck"<BR>
> >>>>>>>>>>><BR>
> That differs from my take on the fate of the _Thunder Child_.<BR>
><BR>
> If I remember Wells' book correctly, _Thunder Child_ sank with all hands<BR>
> while ramming (and destroying) a martian war machine that was moments<BR>
> away from slaughtering boatloads of English civilians who were attempting<BR>
> to flee across the channel. A moment of heroic defiance to the end,<BR>
> lives nobly sacrificed for the (successful) protection of the innocent.<BR>
><BR>
> I saw it as more inspirational, than "dashing hopes".<BR>
<BR>
The reason for that line is because, as in the book, the Thunder Child first<BR>
successfully destroys a Martian war machine by gun fire. This raises<BR>
everybody's hopes that the British Navy can once again save the day, and<BR>
deal once and for all with the Martian threat.  Or at least allow another<BR>
boatload to leave England.<BR>
<BR>
But then more war machines arrive and the Thunder Child is forced into<BR>
sacrificing itself to save the packed steamer. While I agree that it was a<BR>
moment of heroic defiance, and it's why I used the incident IMTU, it also<BR>
"dashed the hopes" of those left on shore of getting out of England and<BR>
surviving , and showed that even the great British Navy could only go down<BR>
fighting in th face of the Martian war machines.<BR>
<BR>
It _is_ inspirational,  but it also emphasizes the power of the invaders,<BR>
and puts the nail in the coffin of military resistance to the invaders,<BR>
leaving England "under the heel" of the Martians.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Walt Smith<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 08:15:50 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Thunder Child (was re: They're coming (again))<BR>
<BR>
> Frank Pitt wrote:<BR>
> >>>>>>>>>><BR>
> Personally I think that "Thunder Child" is the most stiurring song, as<BR>
well<BR>
> as having some great assonance<BR>
><BR>
> "Lashing ropes and smashing timbers<BR>
> Flashing heat-rays pierced the deck<BR>
> Dashing hopes for our deliveance<BR>
> As we watched the sinking wreck"<BR>
> >>>>>>>>>>><BR>
> That differs from my take on the fate of the _Thunder Child_.<BR>
><BR>
> If I remember Wells' book correctly, _Thunder Child_ sank with all hands<BR>
> while ramming (and destroying) a martian war machine that was moments<BR>
> away from slaughtering boatloads of English civilians who were attempting<BR>
> to flee across the channel. A moment of heroic defiance to the end,<BR>
> lives nobly sacrificed for the (successful) protection of the innocent.<BR>
><BR>
> I saw it as more inspirational, than "dashing hopes".<BR>
<BR>
The reason for that line is because, as in the book, the Thunder Child first<BR>
successfully destroys a Martian war machine by gun fire. This raises<BR>
everybody's hopes that the British Navy can once again save the day, and<BR>
deal once and for all with the Martian threat.  Or at least allow another<BR>
boatload to leave England.<BR>
<BR>
But then more war machines arrive and the Thunder Child is forced into<BR>
sacrificing itself to save the packed steamer. While I agree that it was a<BR>
moment of heroic defiance, and it's why I used the incident IMTU, it also<BR>
"dashed the hopes" of those left on shore of getting out of England and<BR>
surviving , and showed that even the great British Navy could only go down<BR>
fighting in th face of the Martian war machines.<BR>
<BR>
It _is_ inspirational,  but it also emphasizes the power of the invaders,<BR>
and puts the nail in the coffin of military resistance to the invaders,<BR>
leaving England "under the heel" of the Martians.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Walt Smith<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 11:15:28 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Mark Cook <markc@peak.org><BR>
Subject: Re: [BITS] Millennium Announcement<BR>
<BR>
> From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
> Subject: Re: [BITS] Millennium Announcement<BR>
> <BR>
> At 04:48 PM 12/16/1999 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >> "My God, it's full of penguins..."<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Well, it had to happen.  Doug finally can put a Nasal Spray silhouette<BR>
> >with my name on it on his keyboard.  Congratulations.  (Especially since<BR>
> >it's not my keyboard, but John Harvard's.  Way to go!).<BR>
> <BR>
> YESSS!!  The Everest of TML sprays!<BR>
> <BR>
> >Nevertheless, retribution will be slow and certain.  Especially if I join<BR>
> >the trickle of TML'ers to SF once I get out of this hive of prim and<BR>
> >decency.<BR>
> <BR>
> Eeep.  Mark?  Care to visit?  And bring most of the toy room?<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm.  If I can just scare up a good can for the Glock 21, we shouldn't<BR>
*need* anything else! :^)<BR>
<BR>
        - Mark C.<BR>
          Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy<BR>
          EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75<BR>
          Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR<BR>
          NRA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)<BR>
          Front Sight First Family member #1<BR>
<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
 mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com<BR>
 7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com<BR>
 Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818      <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
   "Remember that a government big enough to give you everything<BR>
    you want is also big enough to take away everything you have."<BR>
    --Col. David Crockett; member of the Tennessee legislature<BR>
    (1821-1822/1823-1824); member U.S. House of Representatives<BR>
    (1827-1831/1833-1835); and Texas Hero of the Alamo (1836) <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 08:24:34 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Laws affecting Space Travel from the US [OT]<BR>
<BR>
> At 7:37 -0500 16/12/99, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:<BR>
> >I don't recall if the story mentions it, but a setup like that on the<BR>
> >moon would have some marked advantages. The antenna is best laid out as<BR>
> >a set of radials, not a tall tower. So that saves on materials *and* is<BR>
> >easier to build.<BR>
><BR>
> IIRC, Tarsus' communication system was based off a radio on the moon?<BR>
<BR>
And in "We all died at Breakaway Station"  (another really inspirational<BR>
title)  the comms grid is buried<BR>
several metres deep, giving it some protection from incoming fire.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 08:21:39 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: They're coming! (again)<BR>
<BR>
> I've always favoured "The Spirit of Man":<BR>
><BR>
> "There must be something worth living for<BR>
> There must be something worth trying for<BR>
> Even some things worth dying for<BR>
> And if one man can stand tall<BR>
> There must be some hope for us all<BR>
> Somewhere, somewhere in the spirit of man"<BR>
<BR>
That song would be OK taken out of context.<BR>
<BR>
Unfortunately, in context, the character singing it doesn't really believe<BR>
it anymore, and it's more a desperate cry for someone to provide evidence or<BR>
justification for the words he's singing, than a belivable affirmation of<BR>
the concept.<BR>
<BR>
( Jeez,  I just reread that sentence, and while it says what I want it to<BR>
say, I'm using far too many big words these days )<BR>
<BR>
> Hmm, my flatmates, who've banned for from playing it are away right<BR>
> now...<BR>
<BR>
<grin><BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 11:29:50 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: [BITS] Millennium Announcement<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 17 Dec 1999, Mark Cook wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
> > Subject: Re: [BITS] Millennium Announcement<BR>
> > <BR>
> > At 04:48 PM 12/16/1999 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > >> "My God, it's full of penguins..."<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > >Well, it had to happen.  Doug finally can put a Nasal Spray silhouette<BR>
> > >with my name on it on his keyboard.  Congratulations.  (Especially since<BR>
> > >it's not my keyboard, but John Harvard's.  Way to go!).<BR>
> > <BR>
> > YESSS!!  The Everest of TML sprays!<BR>
> > <BR>
> > >Nevertheless, retribution will be slow and certain.  Especially if I join<BR>
> > >the trickle of TML'ers to SF once I get out of this hive of prim and<BR>
> > >decency.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Eeep.  Mark?  Care to visit?  And bring most of the toy room?<BR>
> <BR>
> Hmmm.  If I can just scare up a good can for the Glock 21, we shouldn't<BR>
> *need* anything else! :^)<BR>
> <BR>
Oh goody-- I get to punish Kenji AND play with things that go boom!!!<BR>
<BR>
Kirichan chou ureshii yo naaaaaaaaaaa!!!<BR>
<BR>
(be scared, be very scared...  when I start to speak Japanese in a tone<BR>
of voice that wouldn't sound out of place on Sailor Moon, I am having a<BR>
Ditzie moment!)<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
So Doug when ARE we gonna play Traveller???<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 13:30:41 -0600<BR>
From: Dan Roseberry <rosebee@troi.csw.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Hivers and Grandfather<BR>
<BR>
Interesting topic. I dunno if anyones metioned anything<BR>
about this potential twist:<BR>
<BR>
The Hivers were here before the Droyne and<BR>
Grandfather. The war that ensued could have<BR>
been about the Droyne trying to overthrow<BR>
their masters. Think "Caesar" from "Conquest<BR>
of the Planet of the Apes." I contemplate this<BR>
because:<BR>
1. Droyne do everything in 6's<BR>
2. Hivers have 6 limbs.<BR>
Of course these points could prove the other<BR>
theory as well. This I put forward only as a<BR>
possibility.<BR>
<BR>
Personnally, I like the bit about the Hivers<BR>
fighting Grandfather over the humans. Maybe<BR>
they were fearfull of the humans expanding<BR>
into the rest of the galaxy. Maybe the Hivers<BR>
came to the same conclusion thousands of<BR>
years later and came up with Virus to deal<BR>
with the humans. Or they could have found<BR>
some of their own ancient writings that warned<BR>
them about the humans (ala the Shadows of B5).<BR>
Hmm... Virus could have been an attempt to<BR>
destroy the bulk of humaniti so that we would not<BR>
be able to serve the 'Empress'(wave). I don't have<BR>
alot of TNE stuff, maybe someone could expand on<BR>
this.<BR>
<BR>
Dan Roseberry(plop101) The keyboard is operational.<BR>
Civil Defense is on alert for future nasal spray attacks.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 14:59:48 -0500<BR>
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Firearms Discussions (long)<BR>
<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Amazing!  What a wonderful, coherent, sane and articulate post on a topic<BR>
>that makes a lot of people simply lose their minds.  May I forward it to<BR>
>my favorite sparring partner on this issue?<BR>
<BR>
   Please do.  This is an issue where you see a lot of emotionalism, but<BR>
little in the way of constructive dialog.  Given that so many people have<BR>
such strong opinions on the issue however, no one should be surprised.<BR>
<BR>
   Where I stand on the issue should be clear from the text, but I would<BR>
add that it should ultimately be up to the *people*, not politicians, not<BR>
cultural elitists or social activists, not some judge with a political ax<BR>
to grind, or money hungry prosecutor looking for a big settlement check,<BR>
whether or not any particular firearm or broad classes of firearms with<BR>
certain features are or are not available on the legal gun market (if the<BR>
people of a given country decide one should exist).  Note I say 'legal gun<BR>
market'.  Because illegal gun markets operate in every country in the world<BR>
save Vatican City, and I can probably walk down the street to Italy from<BR>
there and find what I want in short order if I have the right connections.<BR>
<BR>
  OK, I've said too much already.<BR>
<BR>
Regards,<BR>
<BR>
Harold<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 15:18:14 EST<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Seven Wonders of Charted Space<BR>
<BR>
 The unfinished ringworld is in the Hinterworlds Sector, and is owned by a <BR>
rather unfriendly bunch.<BR>
 Vargr space has a rosette of, IIRC, 5 worlds.<BR>
 The Imperial Palace and Shionthy Belt are indeed good candidates. That's <BR>
four...<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 15:33:30 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: back on topic?  was: (Way OT and possible Flamebait)<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 17 Dec 1999, Alan Bradley wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Going OT:  the above is actually influenced by some posts I got on another<BR>
> list, on the topic of gun control!  Apparently, the civil rights movement<BR>
> in the US, one of the classic "nonviolent" movements, was defended by a<BR>
> very large proportion of its members possessing guns.  This resulting in<BR>
> the white hood brigade suffering some very embarrassing setbacks....  <BR>
<BR>
What incident was that?  I can only think of that incident in South<BR>
Carolina in '82 ('83?) where the guns were distributed overwhelmingly<BR>
otherwise.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 15:36:47 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: New Sayat Battery-Powered Novelty<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 16 Dec 1999, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > [1] By my understanding of FF&SII, each shot can blow down trees up to a<BR>
> > foot thick or punch through more than an inch of steel.<BR>
> <BR>
> The Women's SuperHero league wishes to make arrangements for a group<BR>
> purchase. (A certain Amazon who shall remain nameless was heard to<BR>
> exclaim "sounds just about right" upon reading the description quoted<BR>
> above) <BR>
<BR>
"Useful for safecracking and landscaping, too!"<BR>
<BR>
> We are contacing you because of a minor paperwork problem. The<BR>
> "intended use" section of your forms doesn't have a category for<BR>
> "personal massage"....<BR>
<BR>
Sheesh!  We at SayBOOM took a while to figure out you meant "massage" as a<BR>
euphemism for "snuff", but would like to point out that the intended<BR>
targets aren't actually _people_.  And if you mean "massage" as a<BR>
euphemism of a different vector, well, SayBOOM isn't the entity in charge<BR>
of *those*.  We don't do heavy industry.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 15:38:38 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: crime explained (was chicks with guns and other OT madness)<BR>
<BR>
By replacing "Canada" with "Imperium" and "USA" with "Solomani<BR>
Confederation", this post becomes a most valuable on-topic piece ofTrav<BR>
material!  Qewl.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 16 Dec 1999, Kyle Schuant wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Well, the ultimate explanation is simply that Canada<BR>
> remains - despite the regrettable presence of<BR>
> Frenchmen in the eastern regions - a Commonwealth<BR>
> country, with Her Gracious Majesty as its head of<BR>
> state. Whereas the more southern Americas severed<BR>
> their ties with their noble monarchs some ten score<BR>
> years ago, and decided to instead have a system<BR>
> whereby they would have as leaders those elected on<BR>
> the basis of wealth and popularity, thus ensuring that<BR>
> only those of mean and low character, and shifty<BR>
> demeanour, could become leaders; these people then<BR>
> arise and decry indignantly the same leaders for their<BR>
> lack of integrity, and claim to be genuinely surprised<BR>
> at their behaviour. <BR>
> <BR>
> They choose to be led by peanut farmers, actors in<BR>
> b-grade movies, and avoiders of military service, then<BR>
> express puzzlement at the low character and poor<BR>
> behaviour of the common folk. <BR>
> <BR>
> Therein lies the difference between the Dominion of<BR>
> Canada and the Rebellious North American Colonies. But<BR>
> fear not, Brittania shall rise again, and liberate the<BR>
> oppressed masses of your continent, and Canada shall<BR>
> be plagued no longer by the odiferous presence of the<BR>
> whining masses who found their nation on the words,<BR>
> "all men are created equal," written by a slave-owner.<BR>
> <BR>
> (slightly tongue in cheek):)<BR>
> <BR>
> =====<BR>
> KA Schuant<BR>
> member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
> Melbourne<BR>
> Australia<BR>
> <BR>
> "Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
> __________________________________________________<BR>
> Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
> Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
> Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 15:39:27 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Politically Correct Season's Greetings<BR>
<BR>
From: Trevor, Peter <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> (Trivia:  I just read of a store in Tokyo trying to get into  the<BR>
> spirit of Christmas but misunderstanding some  of  the  symbolism<BR>
> ... they proudly displayed Santa Claus nailed to a cross!)<BR>
<BR>
This one has come up for me every Christmas for the last few years. Be wary,<BR>
however, no folklorist has been able to antedate the story before 1993, and<BR>
the location, year and size of the display varies in each telling.<BR>
<BR>
For anyone who cares, that should be a *big* red flag.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 15:43:13 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Ethnic Confusions<BR>
<BR>
This discussion points out one of the weaker points in "Traveller<BR>
sociology" -- the assumption that the Vilani, Zhodani, etc. all lack the<BR>
genetic, phenotypical, linguistic, and cultural diversity of the Solomani,<BR>
because small numbers were transplanted while the Solomani had a somehow<BR>
fuller gene pool to draw on. This is totally indefensible on a linguistic<BR>
and cultural ground, I'm willing to fight to the bitter end; on the<BR>
genetic and biological side, I'll defer to more versed phys anthro types<BR>
here, but from what I understand there's no real support for that either.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 15:45:49 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: technology advances<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 17 Dec 1999, Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I'm way too young to remember this first hand, but it probably wasn't making<BR>
> anybody sick. The physical effects of LSD, even when it's "bad" aren't<BR>
> terribly impressive.<BR>
<BR>
Maybe you have more ethical dealers in PA, but -- I'm dealing PURELY with<BR>
hearsay, here, you understand -- out West you're LUCKY if it gets cut with<BR>
PCP or Draino.  <BR>
<BR>
Or perhaps you're with the Scouts and have one of those (CT)<BR>
unrefined-fuel-friendly drives.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 15:48:16 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: [BITS] Millennium Announcement<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 17 Dec 1999, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >Nevertheless, retribution will be slow and certain.  Especially if I join<BR>
> >the trickle of TML'ers to SF once I get out of this hive of prim and<BR>
> >decency.<BR>
> <BR>
> Eeep.  Mark?  Care to visit?  And bring most of the toy room?<BR>
<BR>
Oh, come on.  I haven't been near the Bay for over ten years.  All my old<BR>
friends are dead, and all the places we used to hang out are gone.  No one<BR>
will recognize me; I won't recognize them.  It'll be grand.<BR>
<BR>
And, come to think of it, Doug, didn't you blow up a few years back when<BR>
La Guatney made a veiled reference to having you shot?  As our comrade on<BR>
thie list says, peez.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 15:51:36 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Politically Correct Season's Greetings<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 17 Dec 1999, Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> From: Trevor, Peter <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
> <BR>
> > (Trivia:  I just read of a store in Tokyo trying to get into  the<BR>
> > spirit of Christmas but misunderstanding some  of  the  symbolism<BR>
> > ... they proudly displayed Santa Claus nailed to a cross!)<BR>
> <BR>
> This one has come up for me every Christmas for the last few years. Be wary,<BR>
> however, no folklorist has been able to antedate the story before 1993, and<BR>
> the location, year and size of the display varies in each telling.<BR>
> <BR>
> For anyone who cares, that should be a *big* red flag.<BR>
<BR>
I have to agree.  This sounds like BS.<BR>
<BR>
However, when I lived in Tokyo, I do remember the local supermarket using<BR>
giant cardboard Santas to advertise the arrival of fresh strawberries, in<BR>
May.  Presumably it was the bright red color?  Nah, I'm not going to make<BR>
excuses for advertisers.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 15:55:41 -0500<BR>
From: "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net><BR>
Subject: RE: chicks with guns, and 3I porno<BR>
<BR>
At 01:26 PM 12/17/99 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 00:54:02 -0800<BR>
>From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
>Subject: RE: chicks with guns, and 3I porno<BR>
<BR>
> In the United States, those States and<BR>
>Municipalities where concealed carry is on a shall-issue basis have lower<BR>
>average crime rates, while neighboring states and municipalities with more<BR>
>draconian restrictions have higher crime rates.  More guns = less crime.<BR>
>Proven fact.<BR>
<BR>
Sigh. It's a ridiculous argument.  All it proves is that gun laws don't<BR>
work with an open border system, in which case, yes-sir-ree, it's better to<BR>
mug someone you  know is less likely to be carrying.<BR>
<BR>
I can drive from Vermont to New York without being stopped by customs<BR>
officials.  I can have a friend with a Vermont address buy a gun in<BR>
Vermont, have him hand it to me outside the store (after any waiting period)<BR>
and then drive to New York. If I keep a few km over the speed limit, I'm<BR>
not going to be stopped.  That's gun control?<BR>
<BR>
obTrav, it's like saying that you have two planets next to each other. One<BR>
is Law Level 0 and the other Law Level 10.  But there's no border control<BR>
and no customs patrol.  Guess what happens?  Right. Anyone willing to break<BR>
the law can.<BR>
<BR>
You want gun control, enforce a country-wide set of restrictions, eliminate<BR>
all "grandfather clauses" allowing resale of existing weapons et al (use<BR>
buy-backs if necessary), enforce drug law level penalties for<BR>
non-complience (mandatory sentencing, like there is for crack cocaine) and<BR>
offer $5,000 buy-back on any firearm not covered by the licensing. Cost you<BR>
a few billion dollars, but if you've the stones for it...<BR>
<BR>
Otherwise, all you can say is "the half-hearted, castrated gun laws that<BR>
the United States can pass are ineffective in reducing crime."  Thought<BR>
experiment: try it with drugs as well. Ban 'em in one state, allow<BR>
relatively free sales in another, and see what happens. Answer: more crime.<BR>
 Why?  Smuggling, ease of access, etc.<BR>
<BR>
What the US needs is _one_ system. Either the same lack of gun laws<BR>
everywhere, or the same gun control everywhere. Only then can you have a<BR>
fair trial of whether "more guns = less crime" is a proven fact or not.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
 _____________________________________________________________________<BR>
     David L. Pulver -- Senior Staff Writer and Assistant Line Editor,<BR>
		     Guardians Of Order Incorporated<BR>
 Big Eyes, Small Mouth * Sailor Moon RPG * Dominion Tank Police RPG *<BR>
Tenchi Muyo! RPG<BR>
             dlpulver@kos.net  http://www.guardiansorder.on.ca<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1518<BR>
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